Audi Forum banner
1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys,

Last month I sold an J-unit to an US guy for an B7/A4. Now the tuning shop is asking me some questions. A lot of them are not really my cup of tea, and it's difficult and a very long story for me to explain all things technically in english..Can someone please help me to answer the questions? I'm pretty sure it's not the unit: it's a brand new tested J-unit.

I also sold a BT module with cable, with the follwing wiring diagram:

Red: Battery plus
Brown: Battery ground
Yellow: Mute
Blue: Audio +
Green Audio -
Grey: Can high
White: Can low
Orange: K-line

Mic is wired seperately

-----

Here the mail of the tuning guy:

It doesn't appear that the unit is functioning well. I feel that the installation was done correctly given the information I was supplied with, but these are the following current problems we are experiencing with the unit, and I feel it is only fair for me to consult with the person who sold him the unit to resolve these issues and get him up and running 100%:

- the unit turns on, but the 'mute' is on all the time. It occasionally flickers off/on, but there is no radio or CD sound. Setting the NAV voice volume seems to work okay, so we have some audio from there. I have tried to hold the power button down to get the unit to reset, but it does not do anything.

- hissing is coming from the speakers like the unit does not shut down 100%. Holding the power button down does nothing for this also.

- thumping, or pops and clicks can be heard coming through the speakers, especially when the TEL unit is connected, or you are using the VAGCOM to program. So the TEL unit was disconnected to see if we could simply get the NAV to work. No success.

- ! this morning my client called me to say that his battery was dead. It would appear that the NAV unit did not turn off and has left him stranded.

The install was straight forward once I had all of the information and went as follows:

NAV Unit
- Connectors: Symphony -> RNS-E (only issue was that the connector IV with mute, audio +/- did not have the correct female pins in it. It was resolved, but is currently disconnected from the TEL unit due to that 'mute' issue/troubleshooting)

- V-Signal/GALA/ABS was connected from the ABS signal wire to PIN3 on the RNS-E "B" Connector (connector wire was cut and the ABS feed was wired in its place going to the RNS-E Unit)

TEL Unit
- Red = 12V (fused 10A)
- Brown = Ground
- Orange = K-Line (spliced into RNS-E Connector "B", PIN 5)
- White = CAN LOW (spliced into RNS-E Connector "D", PIN 10)
- Grey = CAN HIGH (spliced into RNS-E Connector "D", PIN 9)
- RED TEL Connector to RNS-E Connector (with 'mute', 'audio +', audio -')

With the VAGCOM, I changed STG 56, Coding, 07, (0xxxxx?) from 7 to 3 thinking that the RNS-E unit was expecting to see the multi-function steering wheel which was causing the 'mute' to stay on. This obviously did nothing.

Thnx in advance!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,767 Posts
This sounds like a very bad RNS-E adapter or wiring job, many of the issues point into this direction. We all know that the hissing is normal unless the car is locked and all module wnet into deep sleep. The popping is normal when you conenct with VAG-COM to STG #37 or #56. Why the hell has this B7 RNS-E adapter a wire for ABS/GALA?

I would recommend to start over. If they don't have a know good RNS-E adapter, remove all plugs from the RNS-E adapter except the main power and CAN wires. That way the RNS-E should not mute and after about 10 minutes after locking the car all modules shoudl have gone into deep sleep. Once that works start checking the remaining wires based on NSX jr's chart, wire by wire. also get a complete scan of the RNS-E and phone interface to make sure they are still coded properly.

Good luck.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Dirk, thnx for your prompt reply. The RNS-E adapter is a plug&play harness, the good one, so that also let me think it's wrong installed. The tuning guys has access to this topic, so I hope it points him a little it in the right direction.

some more input form anybody?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,624 Posts
ALL of the problems sound like a bad TEL mute connection to me. I had this happen once before where the TEL Mute was being connected to ground permanently. This explains why the mute icon is on all the time, and why there is hissing coming from the speakers (because the tel module stays on with the key removed so you can continue your phone conversation), and the popping sounds also (because the RNS-E is connected full time to the TEL audio wires for the audio source which creates a popping sound when the TEL module is rebooted as a result of recoding).

Finally, this would ALSO explain the dead battery. Since the RNS-E is receiving a constant tel mute signal, then the RNS-E is staying on ALL the time which means your amps are also on ALL the time which will quickly drain your battery.

It is also possible that if you sold them a Kufatec harness, the k-line and mute wires were reversed, which would also create this "constant mute ground" connection in the car.

I would suggest removing the TEL Mute wire from the RNS-E adapter completely (pin D11 directly above the Ground wire). This should solve the problem. The bluetooth module will still send out a mute signal over CAN, so the RNS-E will still mute at the correct time when making a phone call.

On a different note, the other thing I see wrong with their install is the gala wire. There is no gala wire required on the B6/B7 but this would not cause any of the other problems. It simply is not necessary and may cause some problems of it's own within the ABS controller on the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,759 Posts
Sounds to me like one of those adaptors with 2 mute wires, one to the 10 pin telephone lead and the other to the 8 pin power connector, I have had several of these and always remove the mute wire to the 8 pin power connector so nothing on the car symphony wiring loom interferes with the mute function.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,817 Posts
craigyb is correct.
Power connector doesn't need pin8 wired. It will cause battery drainage in some cases.

MUTE is caused by temporary security lock. If speaker outputs are wired incorrectly or there was a bad connection...system will enable mute function to protect speakers. Usually you can disconnect unit for 20 min and leave it to loose power and turn it on again. This should clear the problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Hello eveyone. Thanks for chiming in. I'll do my best to explain where we're at, so that we can get my client up and running.

Cheers

_____________________________________________


AudiA4B6US said:
This sounds like a very bad RNS-E adapter or wiring job, many of the issues point into this direction.
The wiring harness with connectors was provided with Haaggie's kit. This part of the install should've been the most plug'n'play


We all know that the hissing is normal unless the car is locked and all module wnet into deep sleep.
Yes, I did read that. Also holding the power buttone down should have shut it down/reset it, but it did not work.


The popping is normal when you conenct with VAG-COM to STG #37 or #56.
Good to know I didn't mess anything up. It was a little worrisome to hear.

Why the hell has this B7 RNS-E adapter a wire for ABS/GALA?[
The unit was going into a B6. I was not supplied with any sort of wiring guide or instructions with the kit, so I was left to follow what others have done on this forum to get the RNS-E unit into their B6s.

I would recommend to start over. If they don't have a know good RNS-E adapter, remove all plugs from the RNS-E adapter except the main power and CAN wires. That way the RNS-E should not mute and after about 10 minutes after locking the car all modules shoudl have gone into deep sleep. Once that works start checking the remaining wires based on NSX jr's chart, wire by wire. also get a complete scan of the RNS-E and phone interface to make sure they are still coded properly.

Good luck.
If anyone here can supply a correct detailed set of instructions on how this unit should be installed, it would be most helpful. I did spend much time STFA the day of the install, but did not find such a post...

TIA Fellas
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
NSX JR said:
ALL of the problems sound like a bad TEL mute connection to me. I had this happen once before where the TEL Mute was being connected to ground permanently. This explains why the mute icon is on all the time, and why there is hissing coming from the speakers (because the tel module stays on with the key removed so you can continue your phone conversation), and the popping sounds also (because the RNS-E is connected full time to the TEL audio wires for the audio source which creates a popping sound when the TEL module is rebooted as a result of recoding).
This was suspected, which is why the TEL unit was disconnected completely so that we could at very least make sure the NAV was working 100%, then work on what was up with the TEL module.

Mute stayed on. Holding the power button did not reset the NAV - which I though it would.

Finally, this would ALSO explain the dead battery. Since the RNS-E is receiving a constant tel mute signal, then the RNS-E is staying on ALL the time which means your amps are also on ALL the time which will quickly drain your battery.
NAV us currently unplugged.

It is also possible that if you sold them a Kufatec harness, the k-line and mute wires were reversed, which would also create this "constant mute ground" connection in the car.

I would suggest removing the TEL Mute wire from the RNS-E adapter completely (pin D11 directly above the Ground wire). This should solve the problem. The bluetooth module will still send out a mute signal over CAN, so the RNS-E will still mute at the correct time when making a phone call.
I will double check the harness when I see him next. If Haaggie says it is the correct harness, I'm inclined to believe him.

On a different note, the other thing I see wrong with their install is the gala wire. There is no gala wire required on the B6/B7 but this would not cause any of the other problems. It simply is not necessary and may cause some problems of it's own within the ABS controller on the car.
Again, not having any set of instruction, I was forced to stfa and follow what other had done. The GALA/ABS hookup came from Avantix's(sp?) set of instructions and very detailed pic install.

ABS/ESP was tested before the client departed to be sure tapping into the ABS was not affecting his safety.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
craigyb said:
Sounds to me like one of those adaptors with 2 mute wires, one to the 10 pin telephone lead and the other to the 8 pin power connector, I have had several of these and always remove the mute wire to the 8 pin power connector so nothing on the car symphony wiring loom interferes with the mute function.
Thoughts Haaggie?

I can try this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
smash said:
General wiring rule: If everything seems okay.. you've either got a short or a bad ground.
Aux ground was run to the NAV unit & chassis :)

(didn't help)

In the end, the only short that could existed was in the harness or NAV. Highly unlikely, given the both were new and tested.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
PROXUS said:
craigyb is correct.
Power connector doesn't need pin8 wired. It will cause battery drainage in some cases.

MUTE is caused by temporary security lock. If speaker outputs are wired incorrectly or there was a bad connection...system will enable mute function to protect speakers. Usually you can disconnect unit for 20 min and leave it to loose power and turn it on again. This should clear the problem.
How likely is it that the harness is bad?

Should someone have a decent wiring diagram, I can verify all the connections to be certain.

Thanks again for all the help!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,624 Posts
unplugging the tel module would not solve the tel mute problem since it is likely caused by the harness itself. Again, I suggest you remove any wire going to RNS-E pin D11 and see if that solves your problem. An incorrect ground on the tel-mute lead-in to the RNS-E would cause all of the problems you described.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,767 Posts
it might be easier to remove the removable plugs from the quadlock connector and leave only the power and CAN wires in there. That way all external devices are disconnected from the RNS-E but it should still be able to communicate with the car. In this configuration the RNS-E should properly turn on/off and there should be no hissing because the amp doesn't even know that the RNS-E is turned on. The RNS-E might still get muted if the phone interface is connected to power and CAN but at least you can exclude the mute wire in the RNS-E quadlock as possible cause for this.

I usually press RADIO (FM|AM) and CD/TV (CD/SD) for about 10 seconds to make the RNS-E reboot. Holding down the volume button never worked for me with the US software loaded.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
517 Posts
AudiA4B6US said:
I usually press RADIO (FM|AM) and CD/TV (CD/SD) for about 10 seconds to make the RNS-E reboot. Holding down the volume button never worked for me with the US software loaded.
Don't you mean RADIO(FM/AM) and SETUP ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,767 Posts
I sure did, it's RADIO and SETUP. Thanks for catching this :lol:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Sounds to me like one of those adaptors with 2 mute wires, one to the 10 pin telephone lead and the other to the 8 pin power connector, I have had several of these and always remove the mute wire to the 8 pin power connector so nothing on the car symphony wiring loom interferes with the mute function.
Indeed a known issue with some (cheap) adapters. My adapters are the better ones, but it's always possible, but rare with the adapters I use..I would recommend to test the way AUDIA4B6 describes in his last post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
I will try as suggested, but does a detailed installation and wiring diagram of th RNS-E Junit into a B6 Audi exist on this site? (I would prefer to have it as backup when then customer returns to correct the issues... ...rather than having to post while I have his car in the shop...)

TIA
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top