New install : Can issues

3610 Views 16 Replies 5 Participants Last post by AudiA4B6US, Sep 26, 2005

spl3ndr

Discussion Starter · Sep 18, 2005

hello,

first of all, some info, the car is a Euro 2002 A6.
no dis, no m/f steering wheel, no cd-changer,
I ran a speed wire from behind the instrument cluster ( wich works fine)
I hooked up the RNS-E without a problem using the Kufatech connector.
Navigation works perfect and fast.

The main problem is that there is no indication that CAN works, even though it is connected. ( no illumination, no switch on/off with the key, no dis info , ... )

Since the car has no DIS, I do not have no grey connector behind the instrument cluster.
There is a connector with 2 wires ( can hi/low ) wich is connected ( but does not work apparently )
I have the digital clock, so there must be a CAN connection.
The cables run correct, from the car-connector to the D-connector on the RNS-E, to the correct pins.
Everything is connected as it should be, but no succes so far.
should i try to wire pin 21 and 22 from the green connector to the Can bus on the RNS-E ? I also have tracked the wires to the fuse box, but still no luck if I connect them.

does the CAN have to be activated by VAG-COM ?? ( the car was delivered without a radio)
plz help me, it is extremely annoying that I have to turn it back on every half hour.

thanx in advance

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spl3ndr

Discussion Starter · #2 · Sep 18, 2005

just in case anyone needs to know,

the CAN wires that are there, are orange/purple and orange/brown.

Can it be that my car is pre-wired for a Symhony 1 ? if so, what do i need to do so that the unit can use this ?

AudiA4B6US

· #3 · Sep 18, 2005

orange/purple (or orange/lilac) is CAN high, orange/brown is CAN low, both for the Infotainment CAN. If you had the Symphony with build-in 6 CD changer, then you got the CAN enabled Symphony II. If you had only a single CD player, then you got the Symphony I.

Did you triple check that CAN high/low are not swaped?

spl3ndr

Discussion Starter · #4 · Sep 19, 2005

yes, i triple checked them again today. My brother in law also checked it twice, everything is as it should be.

It is like they are not connected or activated inside the car. but why are they pre-wired then ?

The car was delivered without a radio, no cd-changer, no bose.

do I really have to buy a Can-emulator ?

AudiA4B6US

· #5 · Sep 19, 2005

Interesting topic on navi-forum.net, it looks like if you don't have the DIS, the radio is communicating over the Comfort CAN and not the Infotainment CAN with the instrument cluster.

Klaus from navi-forum.net recommends to check channel 61 and make sure it's coded for radio (04352).

-> Channel 061 (CAN Comfort) only Midline Instrument Cluster
00000 - Instrument cluster, no radio
04352 - Instrument cluster and radio
08448 - Instrument cluster and OEM phone
12544 - Instrument cluster, radio and OEM phone
28928 - Instrument cluster, radio, OEM phone and park distance control (PDC)

May not work with the RNS-E because Comfort CAN and Infotainment CAN use differnet speeds and the RNS-E may not be able to undertstand the signals transferred over the Comfort CAN. But it may also be that the instrument cluster doesn't support the proper CAN signals, in this case the CAN emulator may be the only option (which makes you still loose the radio display in the DIS).

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spl3ndr

Discussion Starter · #6 · Sep 19, 2005

the guy that sold me the RNS-E made the topic, because he can't get it to work either.

I have Park Distance Control, so I think it is 28928 - Instrument cluster, radio, OEM phone and park distance control (PDC) .

I have no VAG-COM at my disposal, so I gotta run to the stealer to get it checked out.

how much does a can-emulator cost ?

powertony

· #7 · Sep 19, 2005

Hee.. the guy that sold you the system.. that's me!

I started the post on navi-forum.net .

I hope that Klaus is right and we can solve this using some coding.
But I have to say.. I've never seen anything like this before.
A 2002 Audi A6 does have Can Bus..

Tony

AudiA4B6US

· #8 · Sep 19, 2005

Small world :lol:

Anyway, in the early days not all Audis supported all the CAN busses/signals. Even though the 2002 A6 does have CAN, a Midline or Lowline instrument cluster may not support all the Highline CAN signals required by the RNS-E. The general rule which says "if you have the digital clock then you have CAN" is more a US specific rule because here all Audis come with a DIS (even though not all of them have the board computer features enabled).

In this case getting a compatible 2002 A6 instrument cluster with DIS and a good wiring plan might be the better option. The CAN emulator can't do much more than sending the ignition and lights signal to the RNS-E. The date/time issue remains and the issue with the radio not showing up on the DIS either.

Good luck...

spl3ndr

Discussion Starter · #9 · Sep 20, 2005

an instrument cluster with DIS sounds nice, but cannot be connected ( no grey connector behind the cluster ! )

I hooked up the old voltage meter today, and the can-bus receives NO voltage at all !! Contact on/off , lights on/off, absolutely no voltage at all !

this means they are not hooked on ?
I'll pop the drivers footwell, search for the same wires ( as we did when trying to make the can-bus work when installing the unit ) and measure the voltage.

hope 4 the best.

craigyb

· #10 · Sep 20, 2005

I would not expect the canbus to show any voltage that makes sense it's a digital bus for communication, not an analogue voltage you can measure.

moogie

· #11 · Sep 20, 2005

There should be some voltage even in a data bus, but the voltages can be so small and change so rapidly that your voltagemeter is not sensitive enough to display them. An oscilloscope would be better suited for checking if there is any traffic on the can-bus.

spl3ndr

Discussion Starter · #12 · Sep 20, 2005

this is what I found with the search :

http://www.navplus.us/forum/viewtopic.php?highlight=canbus+voltage&t=729

seems like there is some power running trough it ( at least with him )

I checked the wire colours, they are :
orange/lilac (high) and orange/brown (low)

this afternoon, i'm going to hunt these cables down and hook the unit up on another can-bus source. ( with the same wire colours ofcourse )

moogie

· #13 · Sep 20, 2005

Did you measure the voltages between the two can-bus wires (H and L) or between a wire and ground?

As you can see, the voltage-differential between H and L seems to be quite low, and therefore difficult to measure with basic equipment.

spl3ndr

Discussion Starter · #14 · Sep 20, 2005

wire - ground.

why does audi make this one so damn hard :twisted:

spl3ndr

Discussion Starter · #15 · Sep 22, 2005

went to the dealer yesterday,

hooked it up,

code from the radio channel was 28928 - Instrument cluster, radio, OEM phone and park distance control (PDC)

so this is fine,

the mechanic didn't understand why it wouldn't work properly.

I'm really out of options here ( only 1 left, the emulator :evil: )

anybody has some good idea's ?

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spl3ndr

Discussion Starter · #16 · Sep 26, 2005

found another problem, no rear sound what so ever.
source : only the front speakers are wired, since the rears work trough the line-out ( or something ) i'll might have to buy a new adapter.

might as well buy a emulator while i'm at it. that should solve about anything ( except no info on the dis )

AudiA4B6US

· #17 · Sep 26, 2005

The RNS-E powers only the front speakers, for the rear you always need a separate amp.

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