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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This has been driving me nuts! I can't change from ABBA to Cher (!) after I've switched the ignition off, and I can't use the MF buttons to control this fantastic BT phone set up without the ignition being on. Grr! I don't want to connect the internal wheel electronics and possibly the MFSW controller to 'always on' power for obvious reasons. Is this troubling others, or have I gone and overlooked something simple?

I do have a solution in mind, which would give a power source that becomes available once the key is inserted and turned to 'Ignition on' and which then stays available after the ignition is switched off until the key is removed, when the power supply is cut off. I have two alternative ways of doing this, with relay logic and with a standard 4019B CMOS chip driving a single output relay via a relay driver. I'll be constructing the relay version shortly. Any interest out there? (it's ok Lee, I'm not writing a paper on it ....)
 

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Hi Bob,

You beat me to it :D

Now that I have my MFSW buttons working, I have observed the same thing. As you know, in the US we don't have the 'stay on until key removed' as a standard option, so I add that functionality via CANGate. Since I already detect that state on the CAN bus, I have been thinking about putting an open-collector transistor in the box to drive a relay for button power.

I have a few other things to do before I get to it, so it might be a while, if ever, that I do it. This obviously only would help people with CANGate, so the great majority of people would benefit from your circuit.

And let me add, that I am very happy to see you on this forum, you add a lot of knowledge and good advice, THANKS!

Bjarne
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Bjarne, Thanks for the reminder!

I think I'll put together a check list for me to use before I go spouting off! There are so many variations within and across the model range, I am always amazed at how anyone ever got their heads around it to start with.

There's not much point keeping the MFSW buttons up running if the RNS-E has gone and powered down. Maybe you could talk to people, but not hear them? Hmmm, maybe I should patent this idea?

It looks like my idea is only of use outside the States, where the RNS-E keeps on going - lucky us! - unless there is some way of overiding the US Nav power down with an extra wire on the back of it. I had a look at the pin out, and I did not see anything.

As you will know, there's an ignition switch contact (at least on the C5) that tells the cluster (and central locking) if the key is in or out.

I was wondering if the timing of the CAN message to turn the RNS-E off was a function of the cluster country setting. I think I've seen a article (DVAG?) that talked about changing the country setting (something to do with changing seat belt 'bong' I think) and then recovering all the important stuff like having fuel consumption in US gallons etc - trouble is, I can't find it again, and I did not copy it at the time.

Another alternative I guess would be if there was an adaptation channel setting that changed the RNS-E power down behaviour. Maybe Dirk could help with that!

Perhaps the most obvious thing would be to incorporate the 86s/75X logic into your CANGate, block the original Cluster 'Power Down' message, and generate it when the key is physically removed? Presumably there is a message on the CAN bus you can detect to control this?

On the wild assumption that you have not already looked at the discrete logic, the 4019B (Quad [two * 2 i/p '&' gates driving one 2 i/p 'or' gate]) circuit is:

Link pins 1 and 9
Link pins 13 and 15
Connect 86s to pins 1&9
Connect 75X to pin 14
Use pin 13 output to drive a relay driver to switch 'always on' (Guess you would not need this bit!)

(Where 86s is powered when key in lock, 75X is the load reduction circuit, powered when key turned to 'Ig on' but not during cranking.)

A very similar effect can be obtained by just using 86s, simplifies the logic no end!!! I just fancied the physical action of having to turn the key before the circuit was powered up.

On the C5 platform 86s would be a pain to get to at the ignition key itself (the wiring is very tight) but it is available on T32/20, the blue connector behind the cluster (figures!) and T17/2 the orange connector behind the lower right 'A' pillar trim.

Bob
 

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Your ideas assume that the MFSW controller is powered from an ignition switched feed - has anyone checked this?

It's quite possible that the MFSW controller is already fed from a permanent live feed, and gets a CAN message telling it to power down.

I don't know if it's one way or the other, but it's worth checking before building something and finding it doesn't achieve what you want!
 

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Hi Bob,
The 'On until key removed' feature is in the SW version of the RNS-E. We had it in the US in the early days, when we were running EU SW with modified US maps. It disappeared when we updated to US SW. There are CAN messages from the cluster indicating the key position, and all I do in CANGate is to modify the 'key in' message to a 'ignition on' message for the RNS-E. The messages vary somewhat from model to model, and the only ones I know are for C5/B5, and for B6 (with Dirk's help).

I would think, that there would be interest for your circuit in EU, and maybe someday we will get the 'On until key removed' feature in the US SW.

Bjarne
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
PetrolDave wrote

Your ideas assume that the MFSW controller is powered from an ignition switched feed - has anyone checked this?

It's quite possible that the MFSW controller is already fed from a permanent live feed, and gets a CAN message telling it to power down.

I don't know if it's one way or the other, but it's worth checking before building something and finding it doesn't achieve what you want!
Quite right, always check! It has been!!

There are two power feeds to the 616/618 controller - always on and ignition switched, so you could be right about that. The real problem is that the internal wheel electronics module on the C5 is only powered up when the ignition is switched on.

You can read all about it in a really wonderful and excellent paper on NSX-JR's web site, by far and away the very best paper I have ever read, even if I do say so myself - and I would!!! :) :)

Bob

[siteimg:92788e7446]645[/siteimg:92788e7446]
 

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Bob is it me or do you have 2 fuel gauges in that picture

just a quick question would that MFSW fit my A4 B6 to replace the dreaded i like that wheel, you see i was worried about losing the scrolling through the phone book option and voice control buttons but they look like they are there in your picture

Scott
 

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The lower right hand gauge is a battery meter in the A6.

livefour2day said:
Bob is it me or do you have 2 fuel gauges in that picture

just a quick question would that MFSW fit my A4 B6 to replace the dreaded i like that wheel, you see i was worried about losing the scrolling through the phone book option and voice control buttons but they look like they are there in your picture

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Blast! I was going to say I had a reserve tank! The allroad is a bit gimicky with instrument dials - I've got engine water and oil temperature readouts, for example. Be nice to know about the transmission.

Re putting A6 C5 platform wheels into an A4.

As I understand it, it will not work. The electronics in the C5 wheel and the electronics in your car will not understand each other. Stick to part numbers that were/are available as an ex factory option for your car, and you will be mostly fine.

I say 'mostly' because I ran into a problem with a connector for the power feed to the heated rim on the wheel in the photo. The slip ring unit had changed (supercession note issued by Audi) and one of the two connectors on it no longer fitted into the wheel's internal electronics. It's documented in my R&D paper in the download section on NSX-JR's web site.

You might find a read of some use. Obviously it does not help with A4 specifics, but it should give you, and anyone else contemplating MFSW installations - a very good idea of the research and design aspects of a MFSW project. I'm working on the "Do it" part 2 now, which should be relaesed before Xmas, but that is of even less use to you.

Depending on where you obtained your last wheel, I would very happily recommend Martyn. He can assist you identify compatible parts - you need to place an order with him in return, of course. I recommend if you do use him, you also let him have your full VIN number. You may be suprised at the depth of information Martyn can provide. I was.

Bob
 

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half_a_florin said:
I was wondering if the timing of the CAN message to turn the RNS-E off was a function of the cluster country setting. I think I've seen a article .... that talked about changing the country setting (something to do with changing seat belt 'bong' I think) and then recovering all the important stuff like having fuel consumption in US gallons etc - trouble is, I can't find it again, and I did not copy it at the time.
Hi -

The article you're referring to about changing the instrument cluster country code is on my site, in my VAG-COM coding reference: http://oooo-a3.blogspot.com/2006/06/vag-com-coding-reference.html

Unfortunately, the instrument cluster coding has nothing at all to do with the 'radio stays on until key removed' feature. I REALLY want to know how to get that feature working on my US Concert II. My old GTI behaved that way with both stock and aftermarket (Blaupunkt Alaska II) head units, and it kills me that the A3 doesn't in the US, since it seems to in the rest of the world.

I'm almost convinced that it's a hard-coded feature of the radio itself, since the US radios are different (different FM channel frequency spacing) than the non-US ones. I've played with the radio coding extensively, and enabled the digital speedometer feature in the Concert II (also noted in my VAG-COM coding reference), but I'm completely stumped about the key out/power off thing. Any insight on how to accomplish that with coding would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Len
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the reference. Guess this idea is really a non-runner - no-one has come on and said it would be useful. I realised a couple of days ago that the DIS also powers down when ignition is turned off - I'll go back to getting my wheel heater to work. When the weather warms up!
 
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