[weirded]

Did some reading on TMC last night. Looks like the code on my 2006 Navigation DVD contains a lot of mention of TMC in LOADING.KWI, I wonder if there's a flag in there some place to enable it.

The other thing I couldn't find clear information on is whether the TMC signal is different here than it is in Europe, and whether the maps need special provisions to tie into TMC.

From various google searches, the format of RDS TMC messages is standardized (called ALERT C), and unless ClearChannel/Tele Atlas are doing something special, I would think it should work by just enabling this functionality in the RNS-E.

Anybody got more information?

Here is the stuff I found in LOADING.KWI:

$ strings LOADING.KWI | grep TMC
***** RDS-TMC GUIDdist = %d *****
*****RDS-TMC PHRSid = [%x] *****
***** RDS-TMC ONRTguide EVENT OUT *****
*****RDS-TMC PHRSid = [%x] *****
*****RDS-TMC PHRSid = [%x] *****
AN      AN      initfin=%d LCTMC.fpossetend=%d
----- vicscom_tsk( RDS-TMC ) -----
RDSTMC
RDSTMCINT
TMC icons
TMC-Meldungen
Messages TMC
Comunicati TMC
fico (TMC)
TMC filter
TMC-Anzeigefilter
Filtre stations TMC
Filtro TMC
Show next TMC message
TMC station
TMC-Sender
Station TMC
Emittente TMC
TMC-zender
Emisora TMC
TMC filter
TMC-Anz.filter
Filtre TMC
Filtro TMC
Filter TMC
TMC announcement
TMC Sprachausgabe
Annonces vocales TMC
Comunicaz. vocali TMC
fico (TMC)
No TMC traffic reports are
Zur Zeit liegen keine TMC-
RDS-TMC
RDS-TMC information
RDS-TMC-Informationen
Information RDS-TMC
Informazioni RDS-TMC
RDS-TMC informatie
n RDS-TMC
RDS-TMC-information
Show RDS-TMC icon
RDS-TMC zeigen
ne RDS-TMC
Mostra RDS-TMC
RDS-TMC icoon tonen
Most. icono RDS-TMC
Visa RDS-TMC
Vis RDS-TMC-ikon
RDS-TMC Information
RDS-TMC Information
TMC tuner info
TMC debug
TMC:
TMC tuner
NTMC-1st(
          0,    TMC-1st_T.bmp.S2,               'T',    0x00FFFFFFL;
          1,    TMC-1st_CS.bmp.S2,              'T',    0x00FFFFFFL;
          2,    TMC-1st_CL.bmp.S2,              'T',    0x00FFFFFFL;
NTMC-1st(
        100,    TMC-1st_T-3D.bmp.S2,    'T',    0x00FFFFFFL;
        101,    TMC-1st_CS-3D.bmp.S2,   'T',    0x00FFFFFFL;
        102,    TMC-1st_CL-3D.bmp.S2,   'T',    0x00FFFFFFL;
NTMC-2nd(
        200,    TMC-2nd_T.bmp.S2,               'T',    0x00FFFFFFL;
        201,    TMC-2nd_CS.bmp.S2,              'T',    0x00FFFFFFL;
        202,    TMC-2nd_CL.bmp.S2,              'T',    0x00FFFFFFL;
TMCCNG_TSK
TMC_TSK
TMCCBK_FUNC - %x
TMCvoice
TMCIcons
TMCFilter
TMC_Filter_Scope
TMC_Filter_Motorway
TMC_Filter_MainRoad
TMC_Filter_OtherLocation
TMC_Filter_Event
TMCtoSpeech

 

[PROXUS]

I suspect that this will be another "firmware enabled" feature like Bluetooth functionality was. NAVTEQ was a sponsor of TMC conference last year so I suspect that TMC in US Audis will show up sooner or later. The question is if this will be part of new firmware released along with 2007 maps or it will start working automatically without any update.

 

[weirded]

It would be interesting to run a quick grep/search in the .MOT file on the DVD on a EU version DVD (which I don't have) to see if the term TMC shows up there. I *think* the .MOT file should have the actual application code, and shows some interesting terms in the US DVD I have (RDS, for example), but not TMC.

If TMC shows in the EU version, but not the US version, then they've probably disabled it at compile time and the code didn't even get included in the software image (versus just disabled via a flag).

Can anybody who has the EU DVD run this some time?

 

[AudiA4B6US]

TMC in Europe is a free service and the TMC decoder in the European RNS-E software does not work with subscription TMC like the one in the UK. IIRC, TMC in the US is/will be subscription based so the chnaces that the current TMC decoder in the Euro/US RNS-E software works are very small. I concur though that one day we may see a software update, propably a "TMC enabled" edition of the US navigation DVD, that will allow TMC to work. The hardware is there, a dual tuner is used in the US as well as the European RNS-E. It's just that the software doesn't support it yet.

BTW, clearchannel or so is sending TMC messages but is any of the car manufacturers already offering TMC as option in the US?

 

[ejc2008]

Mercedes has TMC and so does the Acura MDX

 

[PROXUS]

Mercedes has TMC and so does the Acura MDX

Are they working services or just radio is "traffic-ready"?

 

[PROXUS]

I found few articles about TMC:

Real-Time Travel Information - More Services...with the Right Equipment
(Apr 13, 2004)

On of the more interesting developments during the past month was the announcement that Tele Atlas and NAVTEQ, major competitors in the digital street centerline data business, are collaborating on the standardization of traffic codes for digital maps for the United States.According to information provided by both companies:

"No standard set of traffic codes exists for maps of the U.S., inhibiting the cross-platform use of traffic data solutions.For example, navigation systems operating with a NAVTEQ map are unable to link to or utilize Tele Atlas traffic information, and vice versa.A standard set of traffic codes addresses this challenge and, once available, will directly enable the delivery of real-time traffic information to navigation systems and portable navigation devices -- regardless of map provider -- in major markets across the country."

The standards will be based upon the European Radio Data System-Traffic Message Channel (RDS-TMC) Alert C specifications.The delivery of traffic messaging with these specifications is through existing analogue FM transmitters.

By way of background, the RDS was developed over 20 years ago in the European Broadcasting Union.Anyone who has traveled in European has probably noticed that, if your car radio is tuned to receive traffic updates, regular programming is interrupted to receive the latest travel information (Cadillac was the first US carmaker to offer RDS in cars in 1998; call signals for radio stations now seen in many cars in the US is an example of an RDS transmission).According to this organization:

"Travel information with RDS is possible using the Travel Programme (TP) and Travel Announcement (TA) flags.Information is broadcast for motorists, identified in parallel with the ARI system with the corresponding RDS features TP/TA.But ARI is being replaced on a European scale, so it will cease after the year 2005.A more recent development of RDS is the digitally coded Traffic Message Channel (TMC), which is now planned to be introduced all over Europe, within projects funded by the European Union.However, present RDS radios are not yet suitable for RDS-TMC."

The European telematics marketplace is more developed than that in the United States.In 1999, a report was issued Traffic and Travel Information Broadcasting - Protocols for the 21st Century," which outlined the architecture for a communications infrastructure (See Figure below).In this report, it was stated that , "Future TTI services will have to be developed on the assumption that communication with people on the move will definitely take place within the new competitive multimedia service environment, where broadcast technology will be just one delivery mechanism and another will be mobile telephone technology.


Click for larger view

For the service provider specifically, the Transportation Protocol Experts Group was created to determine methods of multimedia broadcasting.The RDS Forum maintains a website with other useful information.

NAVTEQ also announced NAVTEQ TrafficTM, a system that will bypass the existing radio-delivered traffic information and will provide wireless data transmission to a vehicles on-board navigation system.The system will be available in twenty markets beginning with in-vehicle navigation systems on-board selected 2005 car models.In addition, NAVTEQ also launched, XM NavTraffic, that will debut this fall and provide traffic data to the AcuraLinkTM, a communication system that will be a standard feature on the all- new 2005 Acura RL.According to the press release, "The state-of-the-art Acura Satellite Navigation System will provide RL drivers with real-time traffic information integrated with an in-vehicle navigation system, a first in North America."

In other data news from Tele Atlas, the company entered into a strategic alliance with ProMiles, a provider of information on gasoline prices at over 72,000 stations or roughly one-half of those across the United States.According to the company, "Through this partnership, ProMiles will provide Tele Atlas on a daily basis gas prices at the pump for four grades of fuel -- Regular, Plus, Premium and Diesel."

The benefit of each of these information services (traffic, fuel prices) through both wireless or radio media will allow the traveler many options to reduce travel time and fuel costs.However, although the data may be available, the mechanism for delivering the information is still dependent on purchasing either an in-vehicle navigation system (The Acura RL will cost you $45,000+ with the in-vehicle navigation system.), an XM satellite radio subscription service, or being within the reach of an FM station capable of delivering an RDS-TMC alert.

 

[PROXUS]

NAVTEQ Announces Traffic Data Solution for North American
April 08, 2004

Navigation Systems Personalized, Real-Time Traffic Data Available for 2005 Models

Chicago,IL-- NAVTEQ, a leading global provider of digital map data for vehicle, Internet/wireless, government and business solutions, announced it will launch its NAVTEQ Traffic(TM) solution for North American navigation systems in the third quarter of this year.The solution enables navigation systems to provide personalized, real-time traffic information for a driver's chosen route.

The introduction of personalized, real-time traffic is a breakthrough for the North American vehicle market which until now has relied on broadcast traffic services, such as radio, that provide regular but not personal updates.NAVTEQ Traffic is a unique data gathering, aggregation and quality tested solution that links up-to-the minute traffic information to map data and enables wireless transmission directly to a vehicle's on-board navigation system.

NAVTEQ Traffic provides the most complete and accurate nationwide traffic information feed.NAVTEQ Traffic combines data from multiple sources across the country, including the leading commercial traffic data providers, government departments of transportation, police and emergency services, road sensors, cameras and airborne reports.NAVTEQ Traffic aggregates available data including planned incidents (such as construction), unplanned incidents (such as accidents and disabled vehicles) and flow (speed and movement of traffic).Once received, traffic data is quality tested and linked to the map for wireless delivery to an on-board navigation system.

The debut of traffic-enabled navigation systems in North America will empower a driver leaving his office at rush hour with detailed information about where he will encounter traffic on his route home -- before he leaves his parking space.Navigation screen icons will indicate how fast traffic is moving on major roadways and provide a traffic adjusted travel time.He'll know whether the traffic speed is due to congestion and/or an accident.With up-to-the-minute traffic data updates he'll also receive information while he's driving home.For example, if a disabled car is blocking a lane he'll be able to make a re-route decision.

"NAVTEQ Traffic is an example of our ongoing commitment to driving innovation and growth through the navigation industry," said John MacLeod, Executive Vice President -- Global Marketing & Strategy for NAVTEQ."NAVTEQ has spent nearly two years identifying, quality testing and integrating the right data sources and technology to deliver this unique traffic solution.The unveiling of this product marks a pivotal moment for NAVTEQ, the navigation industry and North American drivers."

NAVTEQ Traffic will be available in the following 20 markets on select 2005 vehicles: Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Dallas/Ft.Worth, Detroit, Houston, Los Angeles, Miami-Ft.Lauderdale, Minneapolis-St.Paul, New York, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, San Diego, San Francisco/Oakland, San Jose, Seattle, St.Louis and Washington, DC.

 

[PROXUS]

Notice the dates of this articles!!! Both are from 2004. From what I understand NAVTEQ is providing both services

- NAVTEQ Traffic (FM based)
- XM NavTraffic (XM based)

For some reason non of them is available for Audi, which is equipped with "TMC-ready" navigation system already.

I understand that processing XM NavTrafic data would require firmware update in RNS-E but TMC could be processed without any problems, so what is the hold up? Acura can do it, Pioneer can do it (XM NavTraffic) but Audi (is US) obviously can't (or won't).

 

[weirded]

Chances are, it's a licensing issue? In other words, I would imagine navigation manufacturers have to pay NAVTEQ some extra $$ to enable this? I read somewhere that there isn't a way to encrypt the RDS-TMC messages, but the non-free services hack it by using some different IDs in the messages.

Has anybody grepped their EU LOADING.KWI for TMC yet? I wonder if the code is only disabled in the US firmware, or non existent.

I've driven cars with TMC in Germany, and it's _very_ cool... The Nav just magically guides you around congestion. I wish we were able to get this working... How can we find out what AoA's plans are?

 

[ejc2008]

It's not that magical - most satellite services also have real time broadcast of traffic ...

all the garmin ones, tom tom etc have it - this is the only thing I don't like about this nav - no TMC

its just navteq making more $$ but anyway

Acura has a really cool one. The MDX ones you can not onyl talk to but reroute based on voice and what you see

you can do like reroute I-95 and it'll find another route

 

[PROXUS]

You need to understand that Acura or Garmin / TomTom etc. are made directly for US market while RNS-E was made for EU market first, and right now Audi is in the process of adaptation all those extra features into US version or RNS-E. Hardware-wise unit is ready to take TMC signals and voice commands. The only problem will be to wait for Audi/NAVTEQ to relese proper firmware updates with this functionality.

 

[ejc2008]

yeah all im saying is that they don't have to charge for it - audi just has to pay for the TMC stuff via satellite

 

[weirded]

It would be so great if we had a way to find out what AoA's plans are for all these adoptions

 

[weirded]

Engineering Mode

Poked around in Engineering Mode a bit and noticed something interesting. In the area that shows you information on the FM tuners, there's a flag that reads TMC, and it is 1 for quite a few of the radio stations around here (SF Bay Area).

Aaaargh -- soo close. ](*,)

 

[AvanTTix]

i do get TMC messages from time to time not very often though, and they're never about traffic... it always scares the crap out of me as every time i think something has gone wrong w/ the nav...

 

[PROXUS]

How they look like? :shock:

 

[AvanTTix]

you get a screen w/ Traffic Message or a similar title, with the same blue-ish screen as the Nav menu... you hear whatever broadcast it's coming from, i.e. it stops whatever you're listening to...

the thing is they never last very long, and by the time i realise what's going on, it returns to normal... i think there is an option to accept/continue the message or return to the previous state... again it comes and goes so quickly that i only catch a glance at it... although on Saturday i got one while i was on "screen shot" mode but again by the time i thought about taking a screen shot it was too late...

 

[PROXUS]

nice...how did you found station with TMC signal? Did you change any settings or locked any particular traffic station in memory?

 

[AvanTTix]

well that's the funny thing... i haven't selected anything... i listen to the radio i listen too b/c of its programming, i doubt they even offer TMC... i've just been wondering if they're no just doing some of testing or if some signals is misinterpreted by the RNS-E has a TMC message...

i still have that TMC thing showing up in my cluster though:

although i do believe i got TMC messages before that icon started showing up...