CAN emulator for older Audis

21139 Views 22 Replies 9 Participants Last post by AudiA4B6US, Jan 8, 2008

AudiA4B6US

Discussion Starter · Mar 7, 2005

If you have an older Audi (pre 2001/EU or pre 2002/US) with a Symphony I or Concert I radio, you may not be able to install the newer Symphony II, Concert II or RNS (radio navigation system) because of missing CAN signals. While surfing the web I found this CAN emulator which translates analogue ignition (KL 15), light and speed signals into CAN protocol blocks and allows the use of generation II radios and the newer RNS-D/RNS-E in older Audi models.

http://www.ttr-friends.de/ttr-friends-dateien/index_4-dateien/bauplan/can_emu_einbau/home.htm (German)

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

TeddyBGame

· #2 · Mar 16, 2005

actually, in a 2001 A6, you can tap into the CAN-bus for GALA/speed, illumination and Ignition signal by adding two pins/wires behind the instrument cluster (see my sig for detailed pix). See Lee Hicks awesome Symphony II install (with OEM SAT button) in his 2001 A6.

http://forums.audiworld.com/a6/threads/119038.phtml#496406

I guess, if you have a 1999 or 2000...it is unknown if you have the CAN-bus or not...or at lease a CAN-enabled instrument cluster (which is where you'd need to get the GALA/illumation/ignition signals. However, it is assummed that if you have an instrument cluster that has the digital clock (not the analog clock) below your tachometer....then you can tap into the CAN-bus.

Food for thought.

-ted

AudiA4B6US

Discussion Starter · #3 · Mar 16, 2005

That would explain how it could get installed in a B5 RS4 http://www.synapps.de/synapps/bin/view/Main/RNSEInRS4. I guess you are right and for cars older than 2001 it's really necessary to check what you got in your car.

David

· #4 · Mar 17, 2005

My 2000 had the CAN wires at the radio.

S4atlast!

· #5 · Mar 17, 2005

Teddy,

from what you are saying, all B5 S4's should have these signals. As far as I know all B5 S4's have the digital clock. My S4 is a 2000, 07 99 , a very early build date and it has the digital clock. Which wires behind the instrument cluster do I need to look at or is the digital clock the definitive answer? Thanks!

TeddyBGame

· #6 · Mar 17, 2005

see my install pix (click below)...for the diagram for the Sym I in an A6. You just add two pins to one of the instrument cluster harnesses...very easy. I am pretty sure that the B5 A4/S4 share the same config in the instrument cluster.

Good luck!
-ted

S4atlast!

· #7 · Mar 17, 2005

Ted,

So I am looking to see if I have the gray connector with the purple holder? BTW are you going to do the RNS-E upgrade?

radef

· #8 · Mar 17, 2005

TeddyBGame said:
actually, in a 2001 A6, you can tap into the CAN-bus for GALA/speed, illumination and Ignition signal by adding two pins/wires behind the instrument cluster (see my sig for detailed pix). See Lee Hicks awesome Symphony II install (with OEM SAT button) in his 2001 A6.

Why can't the nav systems pull the GALA information from the CAN bus? If the Symphony II gets it there - why must the nav have the analog speed sensor input?

Justin

TeddyBGame

· #9 · Mar 17, 2005

S4atlast! said:
Ted,

So I am looking to see if I have the gray connector with the purple holder? BTW are you going to do the RNS-E upgrade?

Send an email to Ken Zhao (2000/2001 A4, Nav+, OEM TV Tuner) and ask him which connector he used. I believe it was the grey one as well....but I'm not sure. His email address is:
[email protected]

Probably not. I've already spent $1500+ on my OEM Nav+ setup (HU, TMC/CAN, Nexxtel, Blaupunkt ME3 and Phatbox). I don't see the need to spend another $2500+ to get a "slicker" Nav unit...with MP3 and a better interface. Besides, I feel the PhatBox is a better option that the MP3 SD cards (20GB+ vs. 1, 2, 4GB?).

The only other upgrade that I'll do will be an aftermarket Sirius Starbase ($140), which I'll run through my custom dual input device (courtesy of Jeff Bipes).

-ted

TeddyBGame

· #10 · Mar 17, 2005

radef said:
TeddyBGame said:

actually, in a 2001 A6, you can tap into the CAN-bus for GALA/speed, illumination and Ignition signal by adding two pins/wires behind the instrument cluster (see my sig for detailed pix). See Lee Hicks awesome Symphony II install (with OEM SAT button) in his 2001 A6.

Click to expand...

Why can't the nav systems pull the GALA information from the CAN bus? If the Symphony II gets it there - why must the nav have the analog speed sensor input?

Justin

Because:

a) Nav+ needs "old school" illumination/GALA/ignition signals (not via CAN-bus). The TMC/CAN gateway only communicates the CAN signals as a tranmittor...not a receiver (between the Nav+ HU and the instrument display).
b) RNS-E will need illumination/GALA/ignition via the CAN-bus\

...because that's how the wiring is done.

Make sense? :lol:

-ted

AudiA4B6US

Discussion Starter · #11 · Mar 17, 2005

b) is true for all 8E0 and 8P0 series RNS-E but the 4B0 uses an analogue speed signal (v) and not speed over CAN (until someone confirms otherwise)

radef

· #12 · Mar 17, 2005

Hi Ted,

I guess I need to clarify my post...

I'm installing an RNS-E (4B0 035 192 R) in my 03 allroad. The RNS-E requires an analog speed wire (V signal - GALA). If this information is available on the CAN bus in my allroad (which is has to be since the Symphony II got speed sensitive volume information from the CAN bus), why must the 192 R get this information from the V signal instead of the CAN bus?

Illumination and the rest comes from the CAN already to the RNS-E. It seems odd that the RNS-E needs a speed signal on a seperate wire.

I hope that clarifies my post.

Justin

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TeddyBGame

· #13 · Mar 17, 2005

radef said:
Hi Ted,

I guess I need to clarify my post...

I'm installing an RNS-E (4B0 035 192 R) in my 03 allroad. The RNS-E requires an analog speed wire (V signal - GALA). If this information is available on the CAN bus in my allroad (which is has to be since the Symphony II got speed sensitive volume information from the CAN bus), why must the 192 R get this information from the V signal instead of the CAN bus?

Illumination and the rest comes from the CAN already to the RNS-E. It seems odd that the RNS-E needs a speed signal on a seperate wire.

I hope that clarifies my post.

Justin

ok. Makes sense. I didn't understand the original issue. I guess the "R" version is the US version and the "P" version is Euro. Is that accurrate?

Not sure why the RNS-E needs an analog GALA signal. Luckily, we know where to find it in a 2003 allroad (see my pix).

Good luck on your install.....you lucky BASTARD! Ha!
-ted

radef

· #14 · Mar 18, 2005

TeddyBGame said:
Good luck on your install.....you lucky BASTARD! Ha!
-ted

:lol: :lol:

Perhaps I can try to recode this as an A4 unit and have it grab the speed signals from the CAN. Any thoughts on this? However, my sucess at recoding my RNS-E hasn't worked...I'll mess with this tonight too.

Otherwise, I don't think it will take too much to get the Gala wire thanks to your write up. Also, that will give me a place to put the GPS antenna until I get the right stuff to mount the OEM antenna on the roof.

You are correct - the R version is the RNS-E that will read the US DVD, the P version will not as of yet.

Justin

TeddyBGame

· #15 · Mar 18, 2005

fyi...

GPS Antenna Facts (thanks to Lee Levitt):
Most GPS remote antennas come with long, (sometimes up to 20') coax cable leads. These should never be coiled, as this can cause signal loss and create an RF loop in the signals as well.

My antenna cable is 3 meters, so it has never been an issue....as mine is coiled up in my upper dash area.

Also, when removing the instrument cluster, those two phillips screws are a bitch to remove. They are on really tight. If you strip them...then you'll have to drill out the head. Make sure you have the right size phillips head/socket etc. I would check this sooner...rather than later.

Putting the inst. cluster back in is a bit tricky, as those three connectors don't leave much room for having your arm back there.

Yes...the GALA signal should be within the blue connector in your 2003 allroad. Look for pin# 3 (white/blue stripe).

Feel free to drop me a line if you want to chat off line. Good luck!
-ted

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spl3ndr

· #16 · Jul 5, 2006

TeddyBGame said:
actually, in a 2001 A6, you can tap into the CAN-bus for GALA/speed, illumination and Ignition signal by adding two pins/wires behind the instrument cluster (see my sig for detailed pix). See Lee Hicks awesome Symphony II install (with OEM SAT button) in his 2001 A6.

http://forums.audiworld.com/a6/threads/119038.phtml#496406

I guess, if you have a 1999 or 2000...it is unknown if you have the CAN-bus or not...or at lease a CAN-enabled instrument cluster (which is where you'd need to get the GALA/illumation/ignition signals. However, it is assummed that if you have an instrument cluster that has the digital clock (not the analog clock) below your tachometer....then you can tap into the CAN-bus.

Food for thought.

-ted

There is still a difference :

my euro 2002 A6 has can-bus behind the radio ( orange/lilac (high) and orange/brown (low) ), but it does not work when connected to the rns-E
Behind the cluster I have no grey connector to tap the can-bus wires from.
My cluster does however have the digital clock.

My guess is that the wires behind my radio are comfort can and not infotainment can. I had to buy the Can emulator to get the illumination/ignition/... Sadly, my dis does not show any info about radio, cd or nav.

ps : I have a small dis ( not the big one u guys have, that's why i don't have that middle grey connector behind the cluster )

nlrela

· #17 · Mar 26, 2007

I'll get next week a late 2001 european A4 (I suppose it to be the B6).
Previously there was no standard Audi car radio been built in ...

How can I check whether it has the necessary can bus for the RNS-E ?

nlrela

· #18 · May 13, 2007

nlrela said:
I'll get next week a late 2001 european A4 (I suppose it to be the B6).
Previously there was no standard Audi car radio been built in ...

How can I check whether it has the necessary can bus for the RNS-E ?

It's a B6 (model 8E2014), anyone any clue how to check ?

PetrolDave

· #19 · May 13, 2007

nlrela said:
It's a B6 (model 8E2014), anyone any clue how to check ?

ALL B6 A4's have the necessary infotainment CAN bus for the RNS-E, you don't need a CAN bus emulator.

kristoffer

· #20 · Jan 8, 2008

spl3ndr said:
TeddyBGame said:

actually, in a 2001 A6, you can tap into the CAN-bus for GALA/speed, illumination and Ignition signal by adding two pins/wires behind the instrument cluster (see my sig for detailed pix). See Lee Hicks awesome Symphony II install (with OEM SAT button) in his 2001 A6.

http://forums.audiworld.com/a6/threads/119038.phtml#496406

I guess, if you have a 1999 or 2000...it is unknown if you have the CAN-bus or not...or at lease a CAN-enabled instrument cluster (which is where you'd need to get the GALA/illumation/ignition signals. However, it is assummed that if you have an instrument cluster that has the digital clock (not the analog clock) below your tachometer....then you can tap into the CAN-bus.

Food for thought.

-ted

Click to expand...

There is still a difference :

my euro 2002 A6 has can-bus behind the radio ( orange/lilac (high) and orange/brown (low) ), but it does not work when connected to the rns-E
Behind the cluster I have no grey connector to tap the can-bus wires from.
My cluster does however have the digital clock.

My guess is that the wires behind my radio are comfort can and not infotainment can. I had to buy the Can emulator to get the illumination/ignition/... Sadly, my dis does not show any info about radio, cd or nav.

ps : I have a small dis ( not the big one u guys have, that's why i don't have that middle grey connector behind the cluster )

I'm putting life back into this thread, as I have the same issue.
My 2002 A6 with "half FIS" (just outside temp. and autocheck, probably the same as "spl3ndr" here has.
I had to use a CAN-BUS adapter to make the RNS-E and BT set work. It worked flawlessly, exept the light dim function.

Now, the older chorus casettetape deck witch was installed actually use CAN-BUS also. I have 2 can-bus wires going into the cassette deck.
I have now tried to change the instrument to one with full FIS (i dont have the code for the Immobilizer so I cannot use it to start my car...)
I took the instrument with FIS and switched it with mine. Logged into channel 62, adapted and "voila"! The RNS-E lights up and turns off with ignition.
The fun part is that the grey connector (the middle one) is not connected yet. It is completely empty.

So my thought is that the CAN-BUS wires goes someplace else, but where? Could I possibly find this another place?

I don't have channel 62 in the old instrument cluster, so its impossible to recode it to support navigation.
But is anyone familiar if there is a infotainment CAN-BUS "somewhere" else than in the channel 62 of the instrument?

Hope I made myself understandable, as you probably have guessed my main language isn't English.. :lol:

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