A3 installation - can problems

16224 Views 44 Replies 8 Participants Last post by PetrolDave, Apr 6, 2008

moogie

Discussion Starter · Sep 11, 2005

First of all, thanks for a great forum. Although this is my first post, I have learnt a lot from just reading the existing posts. Thumbs up! =D>

And then to my problem. I just finished installing rns-e to my -05 A3. Having to convert from single din to double din made it a bit more troublesome, but I managed that in the end.

When originally ordered from the factory, my car came without *any* factory HU. This was due to the ridiculous prices they have here in Finland. This means that I do not have the 20-pin connector available with can (and other) pins. The connectors with power and speaker connections are available as expected.

With help from craigyb, we tracked down (or better to say I think I tracked down..) the necessary can wires to the connector (only one in A3) behind the instrumentation cluster, and I managed to wire them from there. For reference, CAN-H came from pin 29 (orange/blue) and CAN-L from pin 30 (orange/brown).

When the time came to give the rns-e the first try I was disappointed to find out then the can connection obviously wasn't working - I got all the usual symptoms. Unit doesn't turn on/off with key, illumination doesn't follow the car lights, clock only syncronizable from gps, etc.

The wiring should be ok, so this leaves me with a couple questions.

- Does anyone know if I used the correct pins in the cluster connector? Is there another location I could/should try?
- Since the car didn't come with a HU from the factory, is it possible that I need to do some vag-com:ing to get the can bus to work properly? If so, what should I try?

Any suggestions and help is most welcome!

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1 - 20 of 45 Posts

AudiA4B6US

· #2 · Sep 11, 2005

Hard to say without wiring diagram but my A4 wiring plan shows orange/lilac for CAN High and orange/brown for CAN Low. So if your blue is lilac and the A3 and A4 colors somehow match you wiring should be correct.

I doubt that Audi is producing two different instrument clusters, one with CAN and one without and therefore I think it's safe to assume that you have the infotainment CAN in your A3. AFAIK there is now VAG change required to activate CAN but if you have a VAG-COM you could try to connect to the CAN gateway which should be installed in your car (#19 would be the CAN gateway).

Were there wires in pin 29/30 or did you install your own wires? If there were wires, how did you connect them to your harness? Could it be that you swapped CAN high/low somewhere?

moogie

Discussion Starter · #3 · Sep 11, 2005

I have the wiring diagram for A3, that is how I found the pins. The can-h wasn't lilac but blue, but that is how it is in the diagram also.

There were wires already in the pins, so I had to cut them and solder the connections. Here are a few pics:
http://moogie.idle.fi/audi/navi/cluster-connector.jpg
http://moogie.idle.fi/audi/navi/cluster-connector-2.jpg

Funny you should mention swapping the h/l wires

If you look at the pic 2 closely, you can see that I accidentally soldered the cut-off ends of the wires back crossed, but this I noticed already when re-assembling the connector.

I did try swapping the h/l wires on the rns-e harness side, but this just came back with strange results - whenever I pressed any keys on the rns-e, random warning lights flashed on the cluster. Not fun, so disconnected that asap. End result was anyway that I now have the airbag warning light lit, have to use vag-com to fix that.

Does anyone has a pic of the rns-e connector (either on the device or the harness) and could point out which pins the can-h and can-l are there? I'd like to make sure that I connected them to the correct wires.

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PetrolDave

· #4 · Sep 11, 2005

Are you 100% sure you've connected to the infotainment CAN - there's more than 1 CAN bus, and you need to be on the correct one.

ville

· #5 · Sep 11, 2005

can problems

Moi
Is nice see that someone else in Finland is also fighting with can bus problems... I have A6 99 and rns-e mod is still under work. laita postia olis kiva kuulla kokemuksia...

moogie

Discussion Starter · #6 · Sep 11, 2005

PetrolDave: Good question. To be honest, I am not 100% sure. These pins are labelled as infotainment can on the wiring diagram I have, but strangely there are two "different" infotainment can's on the diagram. The other is the orange/blue and orange/brown pair which is available at the cluster, and the other is a orange/lilac (hmm, sounds familiar) and orange/brown pair which is supposed to be at connector T20d/Yellow/ConnectorA - I have no idea where this connector is.

Ville: Feel free to ask for any comments you like - note however that I've had the unit only for a day so far

I took a picture of the rns-e harness connector, and marked the pins I used to connect the can wires. Blue circle is can-h and red circle is can-l. Can anyone confirm that these are the correct pins? See http://moogie.idle.fi/audi/navi/rnse-harness.jpg

moogie

Discussion Starter · #7 · Sep 12, 2005

Update: I checked the can-connections and they appear to be ok. Meaning that the wires are firmly connected and nothing is loose.

I also took an extended look at all the different connectors at the drivers foot well area, and could not locate a connector which would be 20pin and yellow. Not that there were any 20pin connectors even in other colors. If anyone has any ideas as to where I might find this Yellow Connector A, please drop a note.

Can anyone confirm the pins for the can-wires from my previous post? I'd like to know that they are correct before I continue searching for some other solution.

ville

· #8 · Sep 12, 2005

can problems

Moi
Is nice see that someone else in Finland is also fighting with can bus problems... I have A6 99 and rns-e mod is still under work. laita postia olis kiva kuulla kokemuksia...

AudiA4B6US

· #9 · Sep 12, 2005

The assignment for CAN H/L in your ardapter looks OK but if you wire is really orange/blue it might be the wrong wire. As I said, in my plan the infotainment CAN is orange/lilac (high) and orange/brown (low), the comfort CAN is orange/green (high) and orange/brown (low) and the engine CAN is orange/black (high) and orange/brown (low). No orange/blue in my B6.

moogie

Discussion Starter · #10 · Sep 12, 2005

I have the same with the infotainment, comfort and engine CAN's, but as said, I also have a second infotainment connection with orange/blue. Strange. Could very well be that I should connect to the orange/lilac.

I have been studying the wiring diagram in more detail, and it appears that this T20d connector which I am now trying to track is some sort of center hub for all the can's. It has pins for all of the different bus's and not much else. Looks like locating this connector would be the next logical step. I might also try to give a call to my dealer tomorrow, but I suspect they may not be too enthusiastic to help..

Does Elsa or Etka include the location of different connectors?

moogie

Discussion Starter · #11 · Sep 12, 2005

I've been trying to figure out why the A3 would have two different infotainment can's. These are the different colors and labels for each can as found on the wiring diagram (only the high-part is listed as low is always orange/brown)

orange/green = Convenience CAN bus, connection -1-
orange/black = Drive Train CAN bus, connection -1-
orange/lilac = Infotainment CAN bus, connection -1-
orange/blue = Infotainment CAN bus, connection -2-

I have no idea what the connection reference is supposed to mean, but this is how they are labeled.

Looking at how and where the two different infotainment can's are wired, I can see that the second (blue) bus is used in several places, and it is also wired to the diagnostics plug. None of the other bus's are wired to that plug, except for an orange/red wire which is unlabeled. The lilac infotainment bus is connected only to this one T20d connector.

This makes me suspect that the blue bus is indeed not the right bus, but something different - even if it is labeled as Infotainment. Need to find the lilac now to confirm this..

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Popov

· #12 · Sep 12, 2005

Well i am to having problem with the can signal. I am doing a install to a Seat leon 2005 but having problem with finding a can signal with including a speed signal. I found one that give's me the diming fuction and turn on/off unit with car key but the other can is giving me nothing at all. But i am sure somebody here on the forum will give us some light over this issue, i know Audi wont do it!

AudiA4B6US

· #13 · Sep 12, 2005

I think I read once that there is a CAN hub in the passenger foot area, under the carpet or behind the trim. Can't remember if it was the A4/B6 or the A3/8P but if you carefully remove the trim on the passenger side and lift the carpet, maybe it gets you to the T20d connector?

Popov

· #14 · Sep 12, 2005

AudiA4B6US said:
I think I read once that there is a CAN hub in the passenger foot area, under the carpet or behind the trim. Can't remember if it was the A4/B6 or the A3/8P but if you carefully remove the trim on the passenger side and lift the carpet, maybe it gets you to the T20d connector?

Yes, thats the one giving me can but no speed signal. It is a black smal plastic box with two connectors to it.

AudiA4B6US

· #15 · Sep 12, 2005

Popov said:
AudiA4B6US said:

I think I read once that there is a CAN hub in the passenger foot area, under the carpet or behind the trim. Can't remember if it was the A4/B6 or the A3/8P but if you carefully remove the trim on the passenger side and lift the carpet, maybe it gets you to the T20d connector?

Click to expand...

Yes, thats the one giving me can but no speed signal. It is a black smal plastic box with two connectors to it.

I think we have discussed your SEAT issue earlier and most agreed that the SEAT may not have speed over CAN. The A3/8P has speed over CAN (the Infortainment CAN) but the issue seems to be finding the correct wire/connector.

moogie

Discussion Starter · #16 · Sep 12, 2005

AudiA4B6US said:
I think I read once that there is a CAN hub in the passenger foot area, under the carpet or behind the trim. Can't remember if it was the A4/B6 or the A3/8P but if you carefully remove the trim on the passenger side and lift the carpet, maybe it gets you to the T20d connector?

Sounds promissing - if the new Leon has it there, maybe it is there in the A3/8P as well. I'll give it a look tomorrow. Thanks.

moogie

Discussion Starter · #17 · Sep 13, 2005

Took a look at the passenger foot area, but couldn't locate either the connector or anything that would look like a can gateway. See http://moogie.idle.fi/audi/navi/passenger-foot-area.jpg for a pic - I looked under the carpet as much as I could, but there was nothing there.

Popov: can you be more specific as to where the can gateway was located in your Leon?

If anyone has any other ideas please let me know.

moogie

Discussion Starter · #18 · Sep 13, 2005

Success! (I think..)

Found what looks like the can gateway and a 20-pin connector on it with just the right looking wires. The connector isn't yellow which made it more difficult to spot. It wasn't on the passenger ride, but on the driver's side "hidden" near the center console. To not make the installation any easier, the connector is in a position which is not easily accessible - I don't fancy the idea of having to solder there.

Does anyone know what the VAG partnumber is for the pins which fit to these smaller data connectors? The connector looks like it has the same size pins as the connector behind the cluster. I don't have any spare pins, but I would need two to make connecting the can wires doable. I do have a couple of the larger pins which fit to the audio connectors, but they are too large.

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Popov

· #19 · Sep 13, 2005

moogie said:
Success! (I think..)

Found what looks like the can gateway and a 20-pin connector on it with just the right looking wires. The connector isn't yellow which made it more difficult to spot. It wasn't on the passenger ride, but on the driver's side "hidden" near the center console. To not make the installation any easier, the connector is in a position which is not easily accessible - I don't fancy the idea of having to solder there.

Does anyone know what the VAG partnumber is for the pins which fit to these smaller data connectors? The connector looks like it has the same size pins as the connector behind the cluster. I don't have any spare pins, but I would need two to make connecting the can wires doable. I do have a couple of the larger pins which fit to the audio connectors, but they are too large.

Seems like you found it. It should bee on driver sida above the pedals but below the steering wheel. And you will have to take the interior off to get to it.

moogie

Discussion Starter · #20 · Sep 13, 2005

It may take a few days before I get around to trying the connection from the can gateway, but I will update when ready.

In the meanwhile, does anyone have the VAG partnumber for the connector cover for the cluster connector? Pic: http://shop.kufatec.de/images/siemens.jpg

I managed the break the locking mechanism the last time I opened it, and would need a new one. I could order the connector from kufatec, but given the shipping costs, it might be easier if I just got one from the local dealers here.

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