Nice summary. This confirms that there are way to many faulty PNP adpaters out there. A general rule could be that if you get the brown speaker connector wired and have a Bose system, double check all wires as you cannot trust the other connections either.
A few wiring notes from my install...
Just wanted to give a few pointers I noticed when I did my RNS install:
Connector "A"
For BOSE systems, the front speaker connector (connector "A") does not need to be used. You can remove this part from the PNP (plug-and-play) harness to keep down the clutter behind the headunit.
Connector "B"
2. CDC-NF GND was connected to vehicle ground through my PNP harness. This should not be. This is for audio ground. I snipped the wire to the vehicle ground so it was only connected to the audio GND coming from my SAT tuner.
3. V-signal was connected to my symphony II BOSE pin through the PNP harness. This would be right if you had a symphony I radio (GALA pin), but not with a symphony II. This obviously needs to be connected to your GALA signal from the instrument cluster.
4. U14R-2 was connected to my CDC acc power through my PNP harness. This is not correct. The accessory power to the CDC should be pin 10 (U14 ST CDC). I moved this pin from pin 4 to 10 in order to connect it properly. I also confirmed that this pin (U14R-2) is connected to current track 30 in the car, meaning it is provided with constant +12V power no matter if the ignition is on or off, and no matter if the RNS-E is on or off. This is NOT the connection you want for your CDC Accessory power.
7. BOSE pin was not provided in my PNP harness. I moved one of my TEL pigtails and used it for my BOSE pin. This should be connected to ground if you have a BOSE system. I tried it both ways, and it sounds WAY better when grounded... obviously only if you have the BOSE system. By grounding, you tell the RNS to use a different audio equalization and processing before it sends out the signals to the amp.
10. U14 ST CDC: I confirmed that this pin is supplied with power only when the RNS-E is powered on. This is for Accessory power to the CDC.
Connector "C"
2. I confirmed that this pin must be supplied with +12V when the car is in reverse to let the RNS-E know that reverse gear is selected. My '01 C5 A6 did NOT communicate reverse gear status over CANbus. This was confirmed with measuring block 04 in VAG-COM. I also confirmed that this is used in conjunction with the speed signal for locating your vehicle on the moving map. Without the reverse gear signal, the RNS will read your speed and move the car forward on the map even though you are moving in reverse in real life. It takes a few seconds afterwards for your location to be corrected through the GPS satellites. Not such a big problem unless you spend a bunch of time driving backwards.
3. My PNP harness has the front and rear speakers switched. I confirmed this with the audio fader before correcting. This could also explain why some people have reported the NAV lady speaking from the rear! To correct, swap pins 3 and 5 then swap pins 9 and 11.
5. Swapped with pin 3, see above.
9. Swapped with pin 11, see above.
11. Swapped with pin 9, see above.
Connector "D"
11. TEL-Mute. This was connected to the symphony II ALARM GND wire through my PNP harness. This is not correct. This pin was the TEL mute for the symphony I, but not the symphony II. This should be connected to pin 14 instead (DWA-GND).
13. U14 ST DSP: This is the remote lead to turn on your amplifier. I confirmed that this is supplied power only when the RNS-E is switched on. It switches off when the car is locked. I had to move the pin to this location from pin 16, which was not the correct pin to power the amplifier.
14. DWA-GND: This is the Alarm-GND pin. This is where I moved my TEL-mute pin in the PNP harness. This pin should be connected to Connector I, pin 2 from symphony II radio harness, or to the large brown single pin connector from the symphony I radio.
16. U14R-1 was connected to my DSP acc power through my PNP harness. This is not correct. The accessory power to the DSP (amplifier) should be pin 13 (U14 ST DSP). I moved this pin from pin 16 to 13 in order to connect it properly. I also confirmed that this pin (U14R-1) is connected to current track 30 in the car, meaning it is provided with constant +12V power no matter if the ignition is on or off, and no matter if the RNS-E is on or off. This is NOT the connection you want for your DSP amplifier Accessory power. This mistaken connection in the PNP harness could expalin why some people have come out to dead batteries after a few days rest. If this pin is used to power your amp, the amp will be on constantly which will drain your battery.
So, to summarize:
-Snipped connection from B2 to D12
-Connect B3 to GALA wire from cluster
-Moved pin B4 to B10
-Connect pin B7 to ground (BOSE systems only)
-Connect C2 to +12V reverse signal
-Swapped pin C3 and C5
-Swapped pin C9 and C11
-Moved pin D16 to D13
-Moved pin D11 to D14 (symphony II only)
-Connect pin D14 to large brown single pin connector (symphony I only)
Check your plug and play harness, just because it looks good doesn't mean it's correct!
As always, this may not apply to you and I supply it as general knowledge.
Connector "A"
For BOSE systems, the front speaker connector (connector "A") does not need to be used. You can remove this part from the PNP (plug-and-play) harness to keep down the clutter behind the headunit.
Connector "B"
2. CDC-NF GND was connected to vehicle ground through my PNP harness. This should not be. This is for audio ground. I snipped the wire to the vehicle ground so it was only connected to the audio GND coming from my SAT tuner.
3. V-signal was connected to my symphony II BOSE pin through the PNP harness. This would be right if you had a symphony I radio (GALA pin), but not with a symphony II. This obviously needs to be connected to your GALA signal from the instrument cluster.
4. U14R-2 was connected to my CDC acc power through my PNP harness. This is not correct. The accessory power to the CDC should be pin 10 (U14 ST CDC). I moved this pin from pin 4 to 10 in order to connect it properly. I also confirmed that this pin (U14R-2) is connected to current track 30 in the car, meaning it is provided with constant +12V power no matter if the ignition is on or off, and no matter if the RNS-E is on or off. This is NOT the connection you want for your CDC Accessory power.
7. BOSE pin was not provided in my PNP harness. I moved one of my TEL pigtails and used it for my BOSE pin. This should be connected to ground if you have a BOSE system. I tried it both ways, and it sounds WAY better when grounded... obviously only if you have the BOSE system. By grounding, you tell the RNS to use a different audio equalization and processing before it sends out the signals to the amp.
10. U14 ST CDC: I confirmed that this pin is supplied with power only when the RNS-E is powered on. This is for Accessory power to the CDC.
Connector "C"
2. I confirmed that this pin must be supplied with +12V when the car is in reverse to let the RNS-E know that reverse gear is selected. My '01 C5 A6 did NOT communicate reverse gear status over CANbus. This was confirmed with measuring block 04 in VAG-COM. I also confirmed that this is used in conjunction with the speed signal for locating your vehicle on the moving map. Without the reverse gear signal, the RNS will read your speed and move the car forward on the map even though you are moving in reverse in real life. It takes a few seconds afterwards for your location to be corrected through the GPS satellites. Not such a big problem unless you spend a bunch of time driving backwards.
3. My PNP harness has the front and rear speakers switched. I confirmed this with the audio fader before correcting. This could also explain why some people have reported the NAV lady speaking from the rear! To correct, swap pins 3 and 5 then swap pins 9 and 11.
5. Swapped with pin 3, see above.
9. Swapped with pin 11, see above.
11. Swapped with pin 9, see above.
Connector "D"
11. TEL-Mute. This was connected to the symphony II ALARM GND wire through my PNP harness. This is not correct. This pin was the TEL mute for the symphony I, but not the symphony II. This should be connected to pin 14 instead (DWA-GND).
13. U14 ST DSP: This is the remote lead to turn on your amplifier. I confirmed that this is supplied power only when the RNS-E is switched on. It switches off when the car is locked. I had to move the pin to this location from pin 16, which was not the correct pin to power the amplifier.
14. DWA-GND: This is the Alarm-GND pin. This is where I moved my TEL-mute pin in the PNP harness. This pin should be connected to Connector I, pin 2 from symphony II radio harness, or to the large brown single pin connector from the symphony I radio.
16. U14R-1 was connected to my DSP acc power through my PNP harness. This is not correct. The accessory power to the DSP (amplifier) should be pin 13 (U14 ST DSP). I moved this pin from pin 16 to 13 in order to connect it properly. I also confirmed that this pin (U14R-1) is connected to current track 30 in the car, meaning it is provided with constant +12V power no matter if the ignition is on or off, and no matter if the RNS-E is on or off. This is NOT the connection you want for your DSP amplifier Accessory power. This mistaken connection in the PNP harness could expalin why some people have come out to dead batteries after a few days rest. If this pin is used to power your amp, the amp will be on constantly which will drain your battery.
So, to summarize:
-Snipped connection from B2 to D12
-Connect B3 to GALA wire from cluster
-Moved pin B4 to B10
-Connect pin B7 to ground (BOSE systems only)
-Connect C2 to +12V reverse signal
-Swapped pin C3 and C5
-Swapped pin C9 and C11
-Moved pin D16 to D13
-Moved pin D11 to D14 (symphony II only)
-Connect pin D14 to large brown single pin connector (symphony I only)
Check your plug and play harness, just because it looks good doesn't mean it's correct!
As always, this may not apply to you and I supply it as general knowledge.
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
So true, happened to me with the first harness.AudiA4B6US said:Nice summary. This confirms that there are way to many faulty PNP adpaters out there. A general rule could be that if you get the brown speaker connector wired and have a Bose system, double check all wires as you cannot trust the other connections either.
Great job!! I need to confirm all of mine too!!
NSX JR, can you confirm that you have a Sym II in a 2001 A6? I have just done my RNS-E install today in my 2001 allroad and am having problems (starting to troubleshoot). I will be checking my harness based on your specs but need to know if in fact your directions are for a Sym II. I have just removed my Sym I for RNS-E.
My issues so far are:
1. Slow map change while driving (changes every few minutes)
2. DIS shows trip computer but no signals from RNS-E (CAN is connected via grey instrument connecter pins 5 & 6 per TeddyB and confirmed working fine with ignition on and AUTO night/day setting working when lights turned on); I cycle through the DIS screens but only get off; trip computer;off... RNS-E is showing blank.
3. My compus does not move at all (though I am getting 6-7 satellites reading all the time with GPS ant mounted in dash)
4. My factory front speaker harness only came with wires to LEFT so voice from RNS-E is exporting on left speaker only (my PNP harness which came with my RNS-E purchase has RIGHT and LEFT wires)
Notes: I have not VAG'd anything yet; this is a EU model P with US firmware; my Sym I had TEL and NAV wiring harnesses connected by I do not have either of those in my car; I have factory CDC cable routed to rear but do not have a CDC in the rear (I have purchased one and plan to install).
My issues so far are:
1. Slow map change while driving (changes every few minutes)
2. DIS shows trip computer but no signals from RNS-E (CAN is connected via grey instrument connecter pins 5 & 6 per TeddyB and confirmed working fine with ignition on and AUTO night/day setting working when lights turned on); I cycle through the DIS screens but only get off; trip computer;off... RNS-E is showing blank.
3. My compus does not move at all (though I am getting 6-7 satellites reading all the time with GPS ant mounted in dash)
4. My factory front speaker harness only came with wires to LEFT so voice from RNS-E is exporting on left speaker only (my PNP harness which came with my RNS-E purchase has RIGHT and LEFT wires)
Notes: I have not VAG'd anything yet; this is a EU model P with US firmware; my Sym I had TEL and NAV wiring harnesses connected by I do not have either of those in my car; I have factory CDC cable routed to rear but do not have a CDC in the rear (I have purchased one and plan to install).
Connector "B"
2. CDC-NF GND was connected to vehicle ground through my PNP harness. This should not be. This is for audio ground. I snipped the wire to the vehicle ground so it was only connected to the audio GND coming from my SAT tuner.
I need to do this! I believe this is why my Phatbox & OEM Sat tuner needs to be grounded. I was having problems with my installed when I first installed the Phatbox. I then found out that I had to ground my Phatbox in the rear to get it to work. I would rather do it at the head unit.
I would really like re-make my harness from scratch, because you can tell from some of my recent post that I've been wanting a new harness!
Since this is out in the open, could someone post "ALL" of the plugs and wires that we would need to make one from scratch?
2. CDC-NF GND was connected to vehicle ground through my PNP harness. This should not be. This is for audio ground. I snipped the wire to the vehicle ground so it was only connected to the audio GND coming from my SAT tuner.
I need to do this! I believe this is why my Phatbox & OEM Sat tuner needs to be grounded. I was having problems with my installed when I first installed the Phatbox. I then found out that I had to ground my Phatbox in the rear to get it to work. I would rather do it at the head unit.
I would really like re-make my harness from scratch, because you can tell from some of my recent post that I've been wanting a new harness!
Since this is out in the open, could someone post "ALL" of the plugs and wires that we would need to make one from scratch?
Yes, I have previously installed a symphony II radio with OEM XM sat radio. Click my sig below for info on how I did that. ALso, in my first post of this thread, I pointed out all the differences between the symphony I and symphony II wiring just to be clear. (such as the alarm ground wire).ehartley said:NSX JR, can you confirm that you have a Sym II in a 2001 A6? I have just done my RNS-E install today in my 2001 allroad and am having problems (starting to troubleshoot). I will be checking my harness based on your specs but need to know if in fact your directions are for a Sym II. I have just removed my Sym I for RNS-E.
My issues so far are:
1. Slow map change while driving (changes every few minutes)
2. DIS shows trip computer but no signals from RNS-E (CAN is connected via grey instrument connecter pins 5 & 6 per TeddyB and confirmed working fine with ignition on and AUTO night/day setting working when lights turned on); I cycle through the DIS screens but only get off; trip computer;off... RNS-E is showing blank.
3. My compus does not move at all (though I am getting 6-7 satellites reading all the time with GPS ant mounted in dash)
4. My factory front speaker harness only came with wires to LEFT so voice from RNS-E is exporting on left speaker only (my PNP harness which came with my RNS-E purchase has RIGHT and LEFT wires)
Notes: I have not VAG'd anything yet; this is a EU model P with US firmware; my Sym I had TEL and NAV wiring harnesses connected by I do not have either of those in my car; I have factory CDC cable routed to rear but do not have a CDC in the rear (I have purchased one and plan to install).
1. Your slow map is because your GALA (V-signal) wire is probably not connected properly through your PNP harness.
2. Your DIS is not working because you have not VAG coded your car yet.
3. Same solution as question #1
4. You obviously have the BOSE speaker system. Do not worry about plugging in your brown front speaker harness. (this only goes to your small telephone handsfree speaker located in your B-pillar.) You need to be sure to connect the RNS-E "BOSE" pin to ground. This will fix all your sound issues, trust me. Again, don't even worry about connecting your brown 8-pin connector, you don't need it anymore.
Todd, the pinouts are in the quick links section.todd1010 said:Connector "B"
2. CDC-NF GND was connected to vehicle ground through my PNP harness. This should not be. This is for audio ground. I snipped the wire to the vehicle ground so it was only connected to the audio GND coming from my SAT tuner.
I need to do this! I believe this is why my Phatbox & OEM Sat tuner needs to be grounded. I was having problems with my installed when I first installed the Phatbox. I then found out that I had to ground my Phatbox in the rear to get it to work. I would rather do it at the head unit.
I would really like re-make my harness from scratch, because you can tell from some of my recent post that I've been wanting a new harness!
Since this is out in the open, could someone post "ALL" of the plugs and wires that we would need to make one from scratch?
To re-iterate my point, the proper grounding pins that deal with the CD changer harness are:
CD CHANGER CHASSIS GROUND
-Symphony I, conenctor IV (red), Pin 10 (CD GND)
-Symphonhy II, connector I (black), Pin 10 (CD GND)
-RNS-E, NO OFFICIAL CONNECTION - CONNECT TO MAIN GND PIN D12.
CD CHANGER AUDIO GROUND
-Symphony I and II, connector I (black), Pin 18 (S GND)
-RNS-E pin B2 (CDC-NF GND)
This is the AUDIO connection and should not touch CHASSIS ground
As a footnote, anytime you see "NF" in the pin description, this is short for "Niederfrequenz" which translated to English is "AUDIO FREQUENCY". You don't want audio lines conencted to your chassis electrical system.
Maybe this is the solution of my problem of incorrect coding in Vag-com, I always have this fault:quote="NSX JR"
7. BOSE pin was not provided in my PNP harness. I moved one of my TEL pigtails and used it for my BOSE pin. This should be connected to ground if you have a BOSE system. I tried it both ways, and it sounds WAY better when grounded... obviously only if you have the BOSE system. By grounding, you tell the RNS to use a different audio equalization and processing before it sends out the signals to the amp.
Address 56: Radio
Part No: 8E0 035 192 C
Component: RNS-E HIGH EU H50 0360
Coding: 0319716
Shop #: WSC 28100
1 Faults Found:
02005 - Coding PIN
004 - No Signal/Communication
and also why my Gala level doesn't change nothing. I have a self-made adapter and "B7" is not connected.
Where do i have to connect ? To Chassis ground or to an other "C" or "D" connection?
Thanks in advance if you can clarify me this.
All that fault means is that your PIN code is not communicating properly with the car. Mine gives that fault code during the first few minutes... when the RNS refuses to accept the PIN code. After the RNS has acclimated itself to the car, that fault code goes away for me.a4ss4abt said:Maybe this is the solution of my problem of incorrect coding in Vag-com, I always have this fault:quote="NSX JR"
7. BOSE pin was not provided in my PNP harness. I moved one of my TEL pigtails and used it for my BOSE pin. This should be connected to ground if you have a BOSE system. I tried it both ways, and it sounds WAY better when grounded... obviously only if you have the BOSE system. By grounding, you tell the RNS to use a different audio equalization and processing before it sends out the signals to the amp.
Address 56: Radio
Part No: 8E0 035 192 C
Component: RNS-E HIGH EU H50 0360
Coding: 0319716
Shop #: WSC 28100
1 Faults Found:
02005 - Coding PIN
004 - No Signal/Communication
and also why my Gala level doesn't change nothing. I have a self-made adapter and "B7" is not connected.
Where do i have to connect ? To Chassis ground or to an other "C" or "D" connection?
Thanks in advance if you can clarify me this.
Also, your GALA not working doesn't have anything to do with the BOSE pin. The BOSE pin only changes the internal audio equalization and processing before it sends out the audio to the BOSE amp. However, if you do have the BOSE system, then it will make your whole system sound better.
Just connect the BOSE pin B7 to chassis ground somewhere, either within the harness, or anywhere on the chassis that is a good ground location.
Sorry but what do you mean with "acclimate itself to the car" ?NSX JR said:All that fault means is that your PIN code is not communicating properly with the car. Mine gives that fault code during the first few minutes... when the RNS refuses to accept the PIN code. After the RNS has acclimated itself to the car, that fault code goes away for me.
Also, your GALA not working doesn't have anything to do with the BOSE pin. The BOSE pin only changes the internal audio equalization and processing before it sends out the audio to the BOSE amp. However, if you do have the BOSE system, then it will make your whole system sound better.
Just connect the BOSE pin B7 to chassis ground somewhere, either within the harness, or anywhere on the chassis that is a good ground location.
If I code the third digit "1"= A4 ("311716") the fault disappears. But I have the Bose and normally I would code the third digit "9" = Bose Sounsystem; for this reason I have thought to the pin B7 that is not connected. In any case Iwill connect that B7 and I'll see what's changing.
What I mean is that early C5 A6 cars and B5 A4 cars have some trouble with the RNS units initially accepting the PIN code, and it takes a few minutes for the unit to become accustomed to being in the car. That is when my RNS gives the "CODING PIN" fault code during this time frame.a4ss4abt said:Sorry but what do you mean with "acclimate itself to the car" ?
If I code the third digit "1"= A4 ("311716") the fault disappears. But I have the Bose and normally I would code the third digit "9" = Bose Sounsystem; for this reason I have thought to the pin B7 that is not connected. In any case Iwill connect that B7 and I'll see what's changing.
However, what you describe may also solve your problem for the reasons you give. If your BOSE pin is not grounded and you try to code the RNS as "BOSE Soundsystem" that may very well give a "Coding PIN" error as well. Please post your findings once you ground your BOSE pin.
Yes........the problem is solved!!!!! The error has disappeared! I grounded the "B7" in RNS-E chassis and now I have succesfully coded "0319716".NSX JR wrote:
However, what you describe may also solve your problem for the reasons you give. If your BOSE pin is not grounded and you try to code the RNS as "BOSE Soundsystem" that may very well give a "Coding PIN" error as well. Please post your findings once you ground your BOSE pin.
But what it is more important is the sound very clear and dynamic.
I don't hear also a little noise who followed the incr/decr. of rpm-engine wich made me nervous specially when i was using AV1/2 Television Inputs.
I'm a musician and in this car I have a DOLBY 5.1 + Pro-logic 2 equipment that has reached a better quality.
Fantastic people in this forum...many thanks to NSX JR.
Ciao
Thanks for the feedback. I did note the Sym I/II differences, just wanted some of your clarification... which did get.NSX JR said:Yes, I have previously installed a symphony II radio with OEM XM sat radio. Click my sig below for info on how I did that. ALso, in my first post of this thread, I pointed out all the differences between the symphony I and symphony II wiring just to be clear. (such as the alarm ground wire).
1. Your slow map is because your GALA (V-signal) wire is probably not connected properly through your PNP harness.
2. Your DIS is not working because you have not VAG coded your car yet.
3. Same solution as question #1
4. You obviously have the BOSE speaker system. Do not worry about plugging in your brown front speaker harness. (this only goes to your small telephone handsfree speaker located in your B-pillar.) You need to be sure to connect the RNS-E "BOSE" pin to ground. This will fix all your sound issues, trust me. Again, don't even worry about connecting your brown 8-pin connector, you don't need it anymore.
Earlier today, when driving the car, my GALA seemed to start sending signals to the unit. My maps now move normally and my compus and direction indicator function normally as well. I am still looking into PNP issues per your recommendations. My original PNP (which is still in the car) is a Nav-Parts unit. I just got a PNP from Euro Parts today... will note the difference here when I have time. (my PNP model for both vendors is Bose, TEL and CDC... all existing features in the car).
Glad you got the problem solved. Thanks for posting your success info.a4ss4abt said:Yes........the problem is solved!!!!! The error has disappeared! I grounded the "B7" in RNS-E chassis and now I have succesfully coded "0319716".
But what it is more important is the sound very clear and dynamic.
I don't hear also a little noise who followed the incr/decr. of rpm-engine wich made me nervous specially when i was using AV1/2 Television Inputs.
I'm a musician and in this car I have a DOLBY 5.1 + Pro-logic 2 equipment that has reached a better quality.
Fantastic people in this forum...many thanks to NSX JR.
Ciao
Please keep in mind that no matter where you get the PNP harness from, they are usually designed for A4 cars, not A6 or allroads. It always pays to verify every wire goes to the proper place from one end to the other.ehartley said:Thanks for the feedback. I did note the Sym I/II differences, just wanted some of your clarification... which did get.
Earlier today, when driving the car, my GALA seemed to start sending signals to the unit. My maps now move normally and my compus and direction indicator function normally as well. I am still looking into PNP issues per your recommendations. My original PNP (which is still in the car) is a Nav-Parts unit. I just got a PNP from Euro Parts today... will note the difference here when I have time. (my PNP model for both vendors is Bose, TEL and CDC... all existing features in the car).
agree.
Lee, nice new web site. looking forward to the Sym I to RNS-E PDF in January.
Lee, nice new web site. looking forward to the Sym I to RNS-E PDF in January.
Thanks, and thank you again for your generosity.ehartley said:agree.
Lee, nice new web site. looking forward to the Sym I to RNS-E PDF in January.
I think I have the same PNP adaptor as yours - I'm finding all the same issues....
Just connect the BOSE pin B7 to chassis ground somewhere, either within the harness, or anywhere on the chassis that is a good ground location.
A couple of further questions:
I have Bose. Connector III Pin1 (BOSE) was on B3 (V-Singal). I've moved this to B7. Now if I connect B7 to chassis ground to get the better equalisation, do I still leave B7 connected to ConIII pin 1 ?
Also, I'm a noob and a little confused about the GALA singal. I read on another thread that my A4 B7 doesnt use GALA. Is this correct ? Does the B3 V-Signal still need to be connected to anything ?
Thanks for any advice...
The B6/B7 A4 and 8P A3 get the speed signal over the CAN bus, so there is no need for a separate GALA/speed signal.Also, I'm a noob and a little confused about the GALA singal. I read on another thread that my A4 B7 doesnt use GALA. Is this correct ? Does the B3 V-Signal still need to be connected to anything ?
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
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